Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities

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Scope of the Project, Notability Rules (clarification), and Syntax for the Watchlist are linked here: Watchlist Talk Page. A discussion on the types of chapter status is here: F&S Project talk page, Archive #7.

Cleanup project (updated)

The main list of infobox issues can be found at Category:Fraternity articles with infobox fraternity issues.

1. Missing image size - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing image size (75)
2. missing |member badge= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing member badge (886)
3. missing |chapters= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing chapters (60)
4. missing |members= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing members (825)
5. missing |website= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing website (146)
6. Missing country
7. Primary sources - tracked at petscan
8. Has bibliography but lacks inline citations - tracked at petscan
9. Needs color boxes (Helpful link, has colors, flags, and addresses of Baltic, Scandinavian, German, and Polish fraternities)

• List of fraternities and sororities in Estonia - Working on these. Jax MN (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Rublamb (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Portal Diskussion:Studentenverbindung

I've reached out to the Discussion group over on dewiki at de:Portal_Diskussion:Studentenverbindung#Request_knowledge_from_english_language_wiki_on_Studentenverbindung and got some really great answers to things. And as I said before, I'm thinking of creating an Template:Infobox_Studentenverbindung equivalent to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Infobox_Studentenverbindung if I can understand all the fields.Naraht (talk) 19:42, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

After working on several Studentenverbindung articles recently, I found that what looked like an infobox for many was actually a code-generated table. All are now changed to "Infobox fraternity". I don't think we need a new infobox, but suggest adding "Zirkel" as a field option to Infobox fraternity. (Color for Couleur is a reasonable translation). Everything else works as is. We just need to create some instructions or at least answer these questions"

1. Are we going to use color boxes or ribbon approximations?
2. How do we determine the correct terms for emphasis; i.e. linking to the German word article for dueling, non-dueling, no couleurs, Catholic, and Christian? Or do we use the English translation?
3. Do we use "Infobox fraternity" for individual fraternities and their umbrella groups? If so, what is the correct type for the umbrella group? The groups that used to have "Infobox organization" were called "trade association" under type. Umbrella group seems pretty informal.

Also, most articles use the foreign language version of the fraternity's name, rather than the English translation. Do we want a translation at the top in parenthesis or should we have a field/free field for the English translation? I struggle with which is correct here. Just consider, why are we using the German word Studentenverbindung instead of its translation? Is there a precedent in other parts of Wikipedia for continuing to use the foreign word instead of its translation? Rublamb (talk) 18:36, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Article cleanup needed

One of our main articles, Fraternities and sororities, has had a factual accuracy tag since March 2023. I just added a few sources, which is part of the issue. Since others have worked on this article in the past, you may have a better idea of what content is questionable. Rublamb (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

There is also a discussion on the articles Talkpage about moving this to Collegiate fraternities and sororities. Rublamb (talk) 22:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

We just discovered History of North American fraternities and sororities which was off the radar because it lacked WikiProject tags. The two articles relate in many ways. I could see a merger of the two and/or splitting the history and cultural content into two articles. It would be a big project since these are both long articles. Rublamb (talk) 23:45, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Awareness builder

Editors with ties to some of the GLOs -- some of the bigger social fraternities and APO are examples -- brand their User pages with small banner tags noting membership. It might be a helpful long-term objective for the Project team to create these, one for each society in their colors, that they might be picked up by editors (typically, new editors) to drive Project participation. We could pin them to each Talk page, with instructions for use. Jax MN (talk) 17:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Userboxes/Collegiate sororities and fraternities Rublamb (talk) 02:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I have updated the userbox template list on our Watch List so that it is easier to see which groups already have a userbox template. (I still need to check our list against the one linked above). However, some existing userbox templates are basically unreadable because of a lack of contrasting colors.

If we are going to add these to all articles relating to the GLO, my suggestion is the horizontal template that nests under the WikiProjects, rather than the verticle box that floats to the right of the page. I don't recommend putting the userbox code in a TalkPage comment as that could be auto-archived. Does anyone need to see examples of the two formats before commenting? I am willing to work on inserting the templates if there is agreement on style. Does anyone volunteer for template cleanup duty? Rublamb (talk) 18:16, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Naming articles for Latvian, Estonia, Russian, and German groups

We need to get a handle on naming conventions for student associations and corporations articles. We seem to have a mix of full foreign-language names, the Korp! nickname, the nickname without Korp!, and English translations. When working in this area yesterday, I found little consistency with Latvian and Estonian group names--the English Wikipedia article's names typically do not match the German Wikipedia name, sometimes using the formal name when that is not in use in German Wikipedia or the group's website. Also, the English translations may or may not be correct. This can eventually be fixed with redirects, but I am struggling to figure out the best common name format so we can be consistent across all articles. Refer to List of student corporations in Latvia and List of fraternities and sororities in Estonia for examples of the article name variations. (Note that I have linked to German Wikipedia if I could not find an article in the English version). Rublamb (talk) 22:13, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

As these are (or ought to be) treated more comprehensively in their native language Wikis, I think we should include a link to the original language article and use a consistent naming structure, probably the 'full' name, not nickname. As long as these are treated consistently within the English language Wikipedia, I would be amenable to whatever of the options you list that you determine works best. Jax MN (talk) 22:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

In most cases, using the full name is like naming an article "The Grand International Sisterhood of Moo Moo Moo, Incorporated", rather than "Moo Moo Moo" or "GIS Moo Moo Moo". (The later being what many of these corporations use on their websites, with "GIS" being common identifier for groups of that type). Since we already follow Wikipedia's naming guidelines and use the common name with US GLOs, I am pretty sure the article's title should be a shortened. It would be helpful to have a member of one of these groups or someone who speaks the language help us naviage what are and are not essential parts of the full name. For example, using "Korp!" may be akin to saying "Chi Psi Fratenity", with Korp translating as the unnecessary word "fraternity". Rublamb (talk) 23:25, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Honor Society Museum

www.honormuseum.org might be useful. With https://honorsocietymuseum.org/all/ being a list of those groups with a specific page about them. Right now we have *one* article that uses information from there: Rho Kappa.Naraht (talk) 00:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

At one point, someone replaced some of the dead links to ACHS member pages with links to this website. However, I don't know if it is connected to ACHS. Rublamb (talk) 02:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I *really* don't think it is, diving into it leads to https://www.honorsociety.org/ , which I get really bad vibes from. "Honor society for all" which looking at the site means less than nothing. I was always looking into an honor society because it gave a good dental plan.Naraht (talk) 03:26, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I had the same read on honorsociety.org. It seems like a for-profit website, possibly getting paid for click-throughs to honor society websites. It would be helpful if the "museum" were a reliable source because many of the societies formed in the late 20th and 21st centuries need more sources since they were never in Bairds. Is this a reliable source? Where do we think their content is coming from? Rublamb (talk) 16:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Found this disclaimer: "HonorSociety.org Inc., Honor Society Foundation Inc., and its president Michael Moradian were sued in federal court by PTK on April 20, 2022 for False Designation of Origin, Trade Dress Infringement, and Unfair Competition. Honor Society and Michael Moradian countersued and are presently defendants/counter-plaintiffs in this litigation. Litigation is still ongoing and all claims made regarding this case are just allegations against the parties". Rublamb (talk) 23:13, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Updated list: notability or no ref tags

• Adelphian Society (local Social 40 years, merged into National)
• Alpha Pi Delta (non-collegiate African American LGBTQ, org website only reference)

Delete: I added two sources but can't find significant coverage. Content has sources now, but mostly from its website. It is now included in both the African American and LGBTQ list articles, with a source. Rublamb (talk) 07:04, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

• Aquinas Honor Society, local, all university sources

Delete: Not even sig coverage by the university

• Fraternities of Plast, zero references FYI: these are Boy Scout-related fraternities
• Kappa Alpha Lambda (4 chapter social, *zero* secondary references)

Delete: can't find secondary sources Rublamb (talk) 20:13, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

• History of the North American fraternity and sorority system, no sources, is this needed?

Merge with List of Greek umbrella organizations

• Kösener Senioren-Convents-Verband (no sources; references exist in German Wikipedia)
• Leviathan (secret society), local, university sources only

Delete: no off-campus sources, founded in 2007 so no history to look for

• Manley Burke, needs secondary sources

Move: the law firm does not meet notability for an organization. However, there are enough sources for an article on the Anti-Hazing Hotline. So, one option is to move the article and subject, with a redirect for the law firm which manages the hotline. Or, we can go with a new article on the hotline. The newsletter, the original focus of the article, is not significant.

• Mu Epsilon Theta (1 chapter (at one time 5) social, *zero* secondary references) done Rublamb (talk) 03:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
• National Junior Art Honor Society, no secondary sources
• National Technical Honor Society, its website was the only source; I added one secondary and believe others exist
• Phi Alpha Mu (local social, about 100 years old, one true secondary source)

Delete: I found some articles in the campus newspaper but no significant coverage elsewhere. It is now included in List of social sororities and women's fraternities Rublamb (talk) 23:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

• Quill and Scroll (no sources but some are available)
• Sigma Alpha Lambda (honorary, *zero* secondary references)

Delete?: I added some sources and expanded/updated the chapter list. However, all of the sources I found are clearly from press releases. There is almost zero presence of this group on its host colleges' websites; I even found one that lists this as a non-recognized organization. A Reddit discussion notes that the group has used a copy of UNC's letterhead without any affiliation. Now that I have expanded the chapter list, I hate to say this--but it does not really meet notability. I suggest including it in the Honor society article but going for an AfD unless one good source shows up. Rublamb (talk) 01:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

• Sigma Delta, its website is the only source> done Rublamb (talk) 01:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
• Veljesto, sources exist in Estonian Wikipedia
• Wren Society (local honor society @ William & Mary, references needed, but 191 years old, so should be *something*)

Merge into College of William & Mary secret societies; I've searched the state library, the VA newspaper database, and the usual places and can't find off-campus sources. The logo and some info seem to be pulled from its Facebook page. Rublamb (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

• Zeta Phi Beta (fraternity), multi-location PR, its dead website is the only source

Harvard College social clubs

IMO, all groups mentioned in the Harvard College social clubs List below should be in a category under cat:Harvard and cat:Student_societies_in_the_United_States . comments? Naraht (talk) 16:37, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. We need some consistency in how we handle collegaite senior societies and final clubs. Rublamb (talk) 19:44, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

For now at Harvard one cat, but I could see a cat for only the senior societies later (don't quite understand the difference between the senior societies and final clubs.

Done. Naraht (talk) 06:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I think they are the same thing. Final club seems to be used at Yale. Rublamb (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I know in some places that there is a difference between groups that are selected into multi-year groups vs. those where one class of seniors selects the next group of incoming seniors and as such the group on campus only consists of seniors. Is that the difference at Harvard?Naraht (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Redirects

I have not found all of the redirects that lack a WP tag, but I have found many redirects that should be deleted. These are spelling or capitalization mistakes, unhelpful article title phrasing, etc. I know this is not a priority project but I am sharing here so that we will not forget the need. Rublamb (talk) 17:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

List of potential redirects for Discussion

So far *just* those containing Alpha, from either a title search with / alpha/ or looking at the section starting with Alpha in Category:Redirects from miscapitalisations (and the one to *possibly* keep due to being a short name)

• Alpha Phi Omega: Epsilon Mu Chapter now redirects to List of Alpha Phi Omega chapters
• Alpha phi omega
• Mu alpha theta
• Pi alpha phi
• Kappa alpha psi
• Sigma alpha mu
• Notable alpha phi omega members
• Chapters of phi mu alpha sinfonia
• Chapters of alpha kappa psi
• Sigma alpha mu beta chapter
• Famous members of alpha gamma rho
• Phi beta kappa
• Beta alpha psi
• List of brothers of alpha phi alpha
• Sigma alpha lambda
• Omega phi alpha national service sorority
• Alpha beta alpha
• Alpha delta theta
• Alpha eta rho
• Alpha kappa kappa
• Alpha nu sigma
• Alpha omega epsilon
• Alpha phi
• Alpha phi delta
• Alpha psi omega
• Alpha sigma phi
• Alpha tau (redirect to Alpha Sigma Tau, national site uses Alpha Tau with capital T which is also a redirect )
• Alpha zeta omega

Template:Association of Education Sororities

I created this template on a whim, and now I'm wondering if it makes sense. (links to AES and to the 7 sororities that were in it). Naraht (talk) 19:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Since we have an article on AES, it makes sense. Rublamb (talk) 04:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Fair use images

There has been some push back on photos of badges that were added as fair use images. I don't know how far this will go but I have added WP Fraternities and Sororities to the talkpage of all crests, coat of arms, flags, badges, and pledge badge images that I have found to ensure that we will know of proposed deletions. Moving forward, please create the talkpage with WP for fair use images so that we will be alerted of proposed deletions. Rublamb (talk) 04:52, 23 November 2024 (UTC)