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Bajaria

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Figure it's worth noting with your new block - on top of the generally problematic edits, they appeared to still not understand ARBPIA ECR, despite being blocked twice for it in the past month after being warned twice. The Kip (contribs) 07:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Kip: Just wow ... I didn't even want to wade in to that quagmire. Graham87 (talk) 07:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September music

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story · music · places

What do you think of my short version of the life of Alexander Goehr? I was happy to include a link to an article by Brian Boulton, - we sang the Monteverdi Vespers on 1 September 2019. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:34, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Awwww BWV 78 ... the soprano/alto duet is one of the first pieces I fell in love with when I really started getting in to classical music. This year I heard the cantata in full for the first time; what an amazing first movement! It was performed at Bachfest while I was there, but unfortunately I couldn't make it to that concert because it was on the same day as the organ excursion ... oh to be in two places at once! (Hearing a historical baroque organ was one of my top priorities, but that cantata would've been good to hear live too). Re Goehr: indeed nice summary; I hadn't heard of them before. Wonderful re Monteverdi articles and the Vespers anniversary yesterday. Graham87 (talk) 15:51, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How lovely, your meeting of the duet! I therefore included it in my DYK proposal ;) - Today's story has 3 composers, I couldn't decide for the one on the Main page or the one who didn't make it on his bicentenary, so took both, and the pic has a third. Listen if you have a bit of time. The music, played by the Kyiv Symphony Orchestra in Germany in April 2022, impressed me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Recommended reading today: Frye Fire, by sadly missed Vami_IV. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gerda Arendt: Awwww ... and not because it was in Graham County ... :-) Graham87 (talk) 01:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! - I am happy because my story today is about a Czech mezzo soprano who is mentioned on the Main page on her birthday. - I accept your reservation about the Main page, but for articles that are not automatically interesting, it's a place to be noticed. In the two sections "Recent deaths" and "More anniversaries", the simple mentioning of a name creates a 4–5-digit number of views that can't be achieved otherwise, certainly not by DYK ;) - She was on RD and DYK last year, by me, and on the other anniversaries last year and today, not by me, so a nice surprise that I noticed only now! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ps: the last edit summary was a misclick - I meant: "another foreign woman musician"! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:08, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Happier about Bach's cantata on the Main page on its 300th birthday (per calendar), my story (again)! Smiles for the duet please ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Three stories related to today in memory, 11 September, 20 July and 20 June, the latter piece of art also pictured on the Main page. - The first also has a theme with variations for keyboard, like the Goldberg. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think I forgot to describe this image: at a glance you see a large sunflower against a clear blue sky, yellow petals looking transparent for the sun shining though them. At a closer look you see a "baby flower" hidden behind the other at the top, and at the bottom the outline of our village and fields and woods around it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Today is Schoenberg's 150th birthday! On display, portrayed by Egon Schiele, with music from Moses und Aron, and with two DYK hooks, one from 2010 and another from 2014; the latter, about his 40th birthday, appeared on his 140th birthday, which made me happy then and now again. - See places for a stunning sunrise, on the day Bruckner's 200th birthday was celebrated (just a few days late). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My story today is about a man who played jazz when it was banned by the Nazis, - you can listen to how they played it later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:54, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ach, lieben Christen, seid getrost, BWV 114, is one of the pieces in my topic of this year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:45, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My story today features a pic I took from my position in the choir, I can also offer varied delightful music, some from Venice, also with pics I took, - note the rose in the clarinet ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Inufan socks

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Hi – you recently blocked Winedrunk, so I'd like to ask for your advice on a related matter, if that's okay. Winedrunk is, as you remarked in the block notice, a sock (one of 155!) of Inufan, who is an LTA on it.wiki but hasn't ever edited here. Now another sock from the same farm, Pippet12 (already blocked on it.wiki), has just gamed autoconfirmed here with a series of dummy edits. I don't want to take them to ANI when they haven't done anything wrong (not yet, at least), and I can't open an SPI as the master isn't blocked here on en.wiki. And I get that blocks aren't applied pre-emptively. What would you suggest? Shall I continue watching to see what their next move is? Or should I just mind my own business and move on? :) Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:11, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@DoubleGrazing: Blocked. Well they're technically block evasion of Winedrunk, who was obviously going for more than autoconfirmed, so SPI would be OK (but it's heavily backlogged ... but these are WP:DUCK situations). Hmmm maybe it's time to request global locks? Graham87 (talk) 09:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah okay. I thought the master would first need to be blocked, but now that you mention it, makes sense – it's the one and the same user, after all.
With another 153 to go, I might come back to you for more...
Thanks for dealing with this so swiftly! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing: Well there's always these RelatedChanges on it.wiki (I assume you know how to set your interface language to English if need be) ... I might just request a global lock of the lot. Graham87 (talk) 09:29, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, every day is a school day, even for an old git! No, I didn't know you could change the interface language. I do now. Thanks for that, it'll come in very handy – suddenly navigating ja.wiki will be so much easier! :) Cheers, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@DoubleGrazing: No worries. I myself forgot that there are now global preferences too ... Graham87 (talk) 09:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So this user appears to have been a problem here for a while now too ... pinging Dekimasu who tagged Winedrunk's user page. Graham87 (talk) 09:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would rather avoid WP:BEANS here, but as the one who has taken care of almost all of this on EN so far, global locks would certainly be helpful (especially given disruption on Commons that takes a lot longer to deal with), I doubt there are any other active socks here at this precise moment, there are somewhat more socks on other Wikis than the number that's listed above, and there is also long-term IP socking. Dekimasuよ! 10:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, in my opinion it is fine to treat Trottapiano as the master on EN. The only other options are Souta (very inactive) and GMatteotti (sometimes treated as the master on Commons). Dekimasuよ! 10:11, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dekimasu: Cool, I started the ball rolling on Meta before seeing your reply. Graham87 (talk) 10:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Block of Rager7

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Regarding this, blocking based on "vibes" is unacceptable. "Testing the waters" is perfectly acceptable behaviour for an inexperienced editor. How else are they supposed to learn? All of their edits outside the redirect seem to be productive. The redirect itself was created in good faith and is not so blatantly bad as to constitute a CIR issue given that another editor !voted to retain it.

I request that Rager7 be unblocked. Un assiolo (talk) 16:46, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. This was a second-chance unblock made after much reluctance on a very short rope. Graham87 (talk) 16:47, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a discussion at ANI. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Overzealous blocking by Graham87. Un assiolo (talk) 08:20, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Query

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Hello, Graham,

I was just deleting a draft by User:MarcArchives00 when I saw you had given them an indefinite block but, looking at their contributions (and deleted contributions), I can't figure out why. I look at a lot of drafts every day and many of them involve editors who have a COI but that is not a reason for an indefinite block unless their content is heavily promotional and it wasn't in this case. Most of their edits were unproblematic, at least the ones I checked. I just wanted to ask you what you saw in this new editor that called for such a severe sanction. Liz Read! Talk! 01:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz: Disruptive edits with misleading edit summaries like this one and this one, that were obviously made to pad their edit count. I don't tend to block editors like that these days unless their edit-count-padding edits are disruptive. Graham87 (talk) 01:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That was an exceptionally poor block, and I've undone it. They were not obviously made to pad their edit count, they were part of the tutorial we show to new editors as shown in the tags. Some of the edits didn't result in an actual improvement in grammar, but you made zero attempt to communicate with the user to let them know they were doing something wrong. Now they'll probably never return, and they might have ended up being a productive editor if they hadn't been bitten. I know this block was a while ago, but in light of the recent ANI please take some time to re-read WP:BLOCKPOL. Specifically WP:BEFOREBLOCKING as well as WP:WHYBLOCK, which contains Administrators should take special care when dealing with new users. Beginning editors are often unfamiliar with Wikipedia policy and convention, and so their behavior may initially appear to be disruptive. Responding to these new users with excessive force can discourage them from editing in the future. The WordsmithTalk to me 22:03, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've also reviewed the rest of your blocks from September, and I'm taking the following actions:
The WordsmithTalk to me 00:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@The Wordsmith: OK, I can live with the results of almost all of these for now (though I'll be monitoring their edits ... and I'd be happy for others to join in with the monitoring). To respond to each one in-line:
  • The fact that MarcArchives00 had made exactly ten edits and *then* created their draft might or might not have been a coincidence. Either way, I saw it as pretty damning at the time. I couldn't exactly tell them that they'd crossed the threshold to move their draft in to the article namespace, but either way, it wouldn't have been accepted in the form it was in when I blocked them ... so I should have probably let them be with a warning.
  • Jamiroquai sundae: Yeah let's see what happens ... it's sad that Wikipedia isn't set up well for that sort of situation but ... it really isn't.
  • GuevaraViquez1979: Yeah OK; I didn't know about their talk page message. Maybe a partial block on the article might have been better.
  • Flight709: It wasn't their making several edits to each article that was the main probblem ... it was just their sloppy way of editing and yes, the deleted draft. I still stand by this edit summary on the edit that brought them to my attention ... it's like they were told to add random references everywhere to boost their cred. In the edit I linked, among other things, they changed the correct text "Farley has also written custom songs, generating $2,000 or more in revenue per month, but stopped doing this in 2021" to "Farley has also written over 24,000 songs, generating $2,000 or more in revenue per month, but stopped doing this in 2021", which is nonsense (and the part of the new text after "24,000 songs" is patently untrue).
  • 70.163.96.153: This is a long-term pattern of vandalism going back to 2008 (!) Yeah, the IP might be reassigned to another user soon; I'll live with that one.
  • 96.57.100.74: Let's see what happens, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just go back to editing again in a month as if nothing has happened. Some IP's can be pretty persistent. I think the integrity of our content is more important than inconveniencing a couple of users. And especially the changes to semi-obfuscate IP's that will happen real soon now will make it a bit harder to track down IP editors.
  • 103.176.217.7: Same as above, for different reasons; school editors IP's are a blight on Wikipedia.
  • 2600:100C:A209:D108:0:0:0:0/64: Often /64's are assigned to one customer for a while; I wanted to make sure they wouldn't come back. /64's are harder to communicate with too; ironically the upcoming IP semi-obfuscation might help with that. Let's see what happens with this one.
  • 108.21.67.83: Probably fair enough. I raised it to five years because they complained that three years was too long; I shouldn't have gone down to their level to make a point.
  • The next two /64's: The first one was probably an overreaction; I hold a dim view of editors who add non-notable people to articles like that. The fact that they knew to add a mayor parameter raised my suspicions, I think. Also see my above remarks about /64 ranges.
  • 216.213.192.0/18: I'd feel safer with the block at 3 years, like it almost was before, but whatever. It's been a school range for a very long time and will probably continue as such; I'm not the only one to do blocks like this, as desperate circumstances (where almost every edit by an IP is revert) often require desperate measures ; see Wikipedia:Database reports/Unusually long IP blocks, which I think is sorted by expiry.
I've re-read the parts of the blocking policy you've cited; I see a lot of "shoulds" there, giving admins a lot of wiggle room for common sense. I've probably overused it. I've been well aware of this Wikipediocracy thread about my blocking for a few days. Graham87 (talk) 05:14, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. The WordsmithTalk to me 22:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Query 2

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I'm going to bring up StattoSteven. Although I recently just declined their unblock appeal, coming back to it I don't think there was enough justification for blocking them in the first place. As a new editor, they added themselves to WikiProjects and created a user page for themselves with their first edits. While you are right that those early edits are suspicious, it is never a valid reason to block someone. People who already know how Wikipedia works won't make suspicious edits on day one (cc Special:Diff/693434393), and if they are returning, they won't try to attract attention by clearly violating MOS:OVERLINK across many articles.

So I think someone should have actually told them to stop adding unuseful internal links. Before they get blocked. What do you think? 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 12:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@0xDeadbeef: Indeed re people who know how Wikipedia works not attracting suspicion, but people who *think* they know how Wikipedia works can do all sorts of things to appear legitimate ... I've encountered so much that I can't describe here. And re their user page: I'm sure there are far fewer people born and raised in Hollywood than those who wish they were. Having said all that, the only way to find out their true intentions is to give 'em some rope, so I've done that. Graham87 (talk) 13:10, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for making that call. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 13:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This block was just absolutely beyond ridiculous. You clearly have zero idea what the intention or purpose of an indefinite block is or when it should be applied and that's quite frightening. Indefinitely blocking an editor for adding themselves to Wikiprojects and adding a few internal links? Are you for real? AusLondonder (talk) 23:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts

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Hi Graham. Up past my bedtime but can't sleep, so forgive me if any of this is unpolished.

I hope you know that I've always admired you as a person, as an editor, and as an admin, through our many dealings over the years. I've also made a rule, ever since one time I got this wrong as a newer editor, against letting my friendship with someone prevent me from seeing where they've screwed up, especially as regards admin tools. Relatedly, I recall Zero0000 coming to my usertalk at a time when I'd screwed up and giving me advice that stood out from others' comments for being entirely calm, and not having the aura of politicking, while still being clear that I had indeed screwed up.

I know that you share my interest in desysops, being the main maintainer of WP:FORMER. For me, that interest has extended to reading every ArbCom desysop since around 2012, and to playing a role in 5 desysops myself. Now I'm not saying you are or aren't in that territory yet, but it's the vantage point from which I tend to view all admin conduct issues, given that background. Now, what I've found across all of these cases is something of a paradox: Getting desysopped is very easy, and avoiding it is even easier. No one has ever been desysopped after fully allocuting to their mistakes; and yet, many people have been desysopped when that was all they had to do. Maybe that says something good about Wikipedians' honesty. Maybe it says something bad about ArbCom's gullibility. The "Lourdes" case was fixing to be our first case that broke this rule, the first time that ArbCom would say "sorry" isn't enough... but then that one went rather differently so we'll never know for sure.

Assessing the exact situation you're in, to your credit you have acknowledged fault in several regards. However, reading the ANI thread today, even with some level of underlying bias in your favor, things look bad. There appears to be a fundamental disconnect between you and your critics, and your responses so far haven't yet captured that.

Something happens to editors sometimes that I've always found very unfortunate: They start doing something that they think is right, and no one tells them otherwise, so they do it more and more, and then suddenly one day they're dragged to ANI as "User X has made 5,000 horrible edits". A similar thing can happen to admins who spend a lot of time adminning in areas with limited peer review, such as antivandalism. It seems to me that your sense of an admin's role with respect to new users and IPs is very different than the community's sense. In a lot of ways I think that is a structural failure on the part of a community that demands results of antivandal admins without showing much interest in seeing how the sausage gets made, a community that has never seemed too interested when I've brought up bad antivandalism blocks I encountered. But in other ways, dear friend, it is a failure on your part—a failure to listen to feedback in past threads, and a failure to grasp the breadth of the disconnect now.

Where do we go from here? Well one option, favored by many admins, is to disregard feedback like this and eventually have your name added to the list you've maintained all these years. Another option is to accept that this kind of adminning might not be, in HR terms, a "strength area" of yours. After the aforementioned incident in which Zero intervened, that's what I did, quietly recusing myself from complex edit wars for the duration of my admin career. A third option is to really, deeply meditate on what the disconnect is. Principally it's that your error tolerance is a couple orders of magnitude removed from the community's. We may all accept, by sheer mathematical necessity, that over the course of enough blocks every admin will eventually block someone who didn't deserve it. But this is expected to be a freak occurrence, not something where an audit of your recent blocks could turn up quite a few that are questionable or outright incorrect. Clearly, if you wish to keep blocking users, you need to realign yourself with the community's sense of how blocks should work.

And I can't help you with that bit. That's something that comes from reflection, and understanding, and then writing earnestly. All things I know you are capable of. But then again, I think most of the admins whose names you and I have added to FORMER were capable of it too.

It feels wrong to lecture someone I've learned a lot from over the years. But that's why I'm doing this. You are an asset to Wikipedia, and a lot of the best work you do involves having the mop. I hope these slightly delirious 3AM thoughts are of some use. Happy editing. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe) 07:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin: Thanks very much for your honest feedback. It's a lot to take in and there's a lot to think about. I think the third option (or some combination of the second and third) would be best for me, naturally, but getting there will take some work. I never really set out to be an anti-vandalism admin (and I'm still not one in the traditional sense ... that would be madness for me,especially now!) Most of my watchlist consists of articles that aren't being actively or sufficiently watched but even articles I created aren't immune to drive-by unusual editing ... this particular episode started with this edit to John Kestel, one of my Paralympic articles. That's probably enough for now. Graham87 (talk) 08:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and on rereading it, I learnt a new word: allocution! Graham87 (talk) 09:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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